Using mutilate build I thought you were better off gemming the +32 AP gems instead of +16 Agility?

Is this not also the case in the upcoming patch (3.1) since poisons are set to scale more with AP?

Or am I completely off the mark here?

As you may have guessed I am a little confused :S

I understand you are stating as far as 3.1 in concerned but as of now you will want the +16 Agi gems.

First of all +16 agility = more DPS
1 Agility = 0.01179198% at level 80.
(Example- 1423 Agility is 16.78% crit)

1 Agility = 2 Armor at level 80.

1 Agility = 0.02066460% Dodge at level 80.

So in all reality most PvE player like to have Dodge, Crit, Armor, Attack Power out of one stat, instead of pure AP. That is just how the world works now, but each thing has its own way to be played so tell me if you go pure AP.

-Visin

[...] In order to prove yourself to most of the guilds out there while being a Rogue you need to show them one a few things, which mainly includes how much DPS you can show off on the boss fights and how well you know your fights. Now let us put the strategy of the bosses to the side and get to the needy greedy aspect of DPS fights. You will need to have the best gear that you can. [...]

In the information regarding the combat build: “after that it will be Adrenaline Rushes, Blade Flurry, and Killing Spree at every pop.”

If you look at the talent build you have published with it, you’ll notice that you don’t have Killing spree as a talent.

Hey Azur,

There must have been an issue for me linking the combat build, it should be fixed now.

Thanks for the heads up man

-Visin

[...] I prodded a friend, who does raid a lot, into writing an article on Rogue Raid DPS which I found quite useful. Now it’s time to start playing around with some of this stuff and [...]

I think the assasination build is also off — in fact, it’s a combat build

a 5 Snd 5 Rupture cycle is not exactly optimal, most properly geared and buffed rogues use a 2/3 snd 5 rupt 5 evisc cycle with SS rpt and SND glyphs, which are still the best in 3.1.

Who uses swords as combat anymore anyways? Perhaps that will change in 3.1 with -real- sword itemization, but Fist/Dagger is really the only way to go until you get your hands on some good swords.

fix the link plz for the assassination build. it leads to a combat build.

Also even before 3.1 poisons scaled with AP. As a rogue gemming, you want to stack AP over agility, due to the fact you really dont care about armor and dodge, you shouldnt be getting hit, and if you are that little bit wont save you, from Whirlwind and such. So comparing the stats of increased crit and ap, 1 agi= 1 AP, overall the AP is better due to also scaling poisons. Also you want to try to burn CDs together for benefit but time it, when using adren rush dont Blade flurry since you will probably waste energy regen time while in blade flurry. Since the timers for CD are the same for Killing Spree and Blade Flurry, I burn the two together usually and make sure I save my adren rush for a boss if one is close, or high HP single target mobs. Hope it helps and happy raiding.

Great above comment, I fully understand what you mean with pure AP but also, you are leaving out Crit chance which is a GREAT asset. I make sure mine is at around 30-40% Unbuffed, and then I go all out on AP to provide the most dmg.

But yeah you pretty much summed it all up, thanks!

your link for the assasination build still leads to combat =/ can you fix it please article is very i interesting and i wana try it out XD

try this link mates for assasination build

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0ef0exoi0oIzAo0xV0hZxb

For those of you that have been interested in an assassins build, I would reccomend this build:
http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fGefoe0oqboszAo0xV0hZxb

You can chose if you want more or less combo points in Focused Attacks or Close Quarters Combat.

With this build I would reccomend using the same rotation as described above.

If anyone has any suggestions/questions regarding the build, feel free to post =)

for the rogue assasination rotation, im pretty sure u cant have hunger for blood up until u have a bleed effect on the target so wouldnt it be

stealth behind target, garrote, hunger for blood, mut (5), rupture, mut, sNd, mut (5), evis… rinse repeat?

let me know

erm… optimising rogue raid DPS post with no mention of expertise cap and only token mention of hit cap?

I’d be a little amused if I saw a rogue gem Agi if their Expertise was gimped.

Somewhat useful post, but you might also want to look here: http://ninjachimp.blogspot.com/2009/04/so-what-should-pve-rogues-do-when-they.html

@ tazzmanian: the post was probably written before the HfB changes. It used to be that you charged it up to 3 stacks before your opener.

@ OP: your enchants are wrong – the best PvE weapon enchants for rogues are generally Berserking and Mongoose. You’ve really got a woody for +agi

Of course, like always, check everything in a spreadsheet because it’s all gear and spec dependent.

are you serious? these specs are bloody retarded. You skipped out on lethality on the actual CBT build, for improved eviscerate, and 10 extra energy? these specs are made for bosses, not trash, so you wont use eviscerate much while keeping up a good rotation. lethality gives your SS an additional 30% dmg on its crits, thats a bunch more dps than using eviscerate on trash/maybe a couple times on a boss. you ALSO skipped out on 10% melee haste. this is a cbt swords spec, cbt swords specs lean more tword haste for the cbt swords proc/combat potency procs. and you seriously skipped out on 10% melee haste for improved sprint and 2% parry? along with the 10% haste you get 6% dodge.

this isnt a guide to “Better Rogue Raid DPS” and to the guy who was talking about +32ap gems instead of 16 agility, when in a raid, a pallys kings (+10% to stats) doesnt effect pure attackpower stuff, but it does effect agility.

To the above poster, what you have spoke about does not affect my raiding. Why should I waste my talent build to help clear trash when I should be more worried about my boss killing strategies?

Trash is for Mage’s, fyi.

No one asks for a Recount Report at the end of trash they ask for it at the end of a boss, because thats what we care about.

Anyone can kill trash, not everyone can take down bosses. Come back and flame when you have the experience to do so, kk?

any raid spec that gives you sprint and parry over haste is terrible. now the guide in general is good, but your comments afterward arent very intelligent. anyone that slacks on trash is useless. you are supposed to go all out all the time, or else you are a slacker being carried to bosses just to get free loot. apparently all you are worried about is the recount at the end of fights, which means you are NOT a good raider. dps is not everything my friend, Im sorry.

also, while Im at it. Ill teach you a few things. Assaination rogues do NOT use eviscerate unless our targets are immune to poison. Envenom is our finisher because all of our talents are boosting the envenom dps. Also, you will hardly ever go to 5 combo points on any finishers. because its not a good use of energy to keep up your best dps. almost every time you use a finisher, regardless of spec. it will be a 4 point, so you dont waste energy. the slight increase in damage done that hit, actually lowers your overall dps. and just to let everyone who isnt BiS, anyone without the T8 4 slot bonus or in equally good gear (meaning Uld 10 and higher)you will NOT want to use rupture in your rotation. Rupture will actually lower your overall dps in any fight that you are not required to run away for a long period of time. having the crit bonus from 4 set T8 makes it increase dps and once you have top end gear as well. but before that, rupture lowers dps. Everything Ive said is based purely from a Mut rogue. your welcome for the tips

While I do thank you for your comments as they are helpful to the topic, I have to say having parry for a Raiding Rogue is ultimately the most stupid thing I have heard, like at all. Are you preparing to be pulling aggro? Hope not.

Now, as far as saying to use Envenom that is correct and I am not sure why it was not automatically included in the guide, but yeah use Envenom instead of Evis.

one of your specs posted, the one for combat. has a point into the parry talent. so, you would be the most stupid person based on the fact taht you are telling people to use a parry talent. both of your specs are messed up. 1: they are both combat specs. 2: you dont have the melee haste talent in either one which is a big dps boost. 3: you have improved sprint which is useless for raiding rogues. Fix your specs, feel free to use my examples that follow: Assasination – http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0ef0exoVboIuAo0xV0xZ0b Combat – http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhxb0xZMgVo0cxqru0xRtx

and for anyone reading this, my examples arent the only ones you can use. there are a couple points you can use in other spots depending on how you play your toon. But if you want a serious example as to how to atleast start your raiding spec, follow my examples, not the ones posted originally.

Yeah Envenom provides better damage than Eviscerate for Mutilate build. Also I see that master poisoner is missing in these builds. I thought it was the better talent. For glyphs use the mutilate glyph instead of snd glyph since the last patch. However the new patch combat specs might start seeing some rogues using axes, specially orcs. As of now the only useful axe would be:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=46031

Anything else has wasted stats for raiding rogues such as strength or too much resilience. See here for more options:
http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2.0&filter=qu=2:3:4:5:6;minle=200;maxrl=80;cr=123;crs=3;crv=0

Okay as far as lvl 80 rogues these are our options for combat axes:
http://www.wowhead.com/?items=2.0&filter=qu=2:3:4:5:6;minle=200;maxrl=80;cr=123:79:20;crs=3:3:3;crv=0:0:0

hey wiht the assasination build do after rupture do i need 5 combo points to S&D?

you know nothing about rogue, please know your class before you post shit on it

Learn your class first, and btw, you probably play private servers, since you spam agility all the time. agility is good, but honestly? i agree with the other poster about the berserking on the weapons, agility on the weapons is lame. plus envenom is much better dps for “any” assasination spec. Assasination is meant for poisons you idiot. Thats why there are about 5 or 6 different talents that involve poisons. envenom is best used with deadly poison. especially to get your slice and dice back up to full. like honestly? wow. learn the class bro.

I’m kinda disappointed… you have no build for Combat/Hemo and i’ve been trying to find a good build for that. nor do you have any kinda Sub build at all. I personaly prefer hemo because its 120% weapon damage and only cost 35 base engergy making it much better for dps than SS. given the proper talents hemo can get up to 140% weapon damage. agility is nice and the 10% pally buff is would work nicely. but theres no garantee on having a pally. and if there is one you should NOT ask for kings. Rogues need might… especially if theres a Ret pally around

[...] I prodded a friend, who does raid a lot, into writing an article on Rogue Raid DPS which I found quite useful. Now it’s time to start playing around with some of this stuff and [...]

your spec for combat was pitiful lethality is a must for any raiding in the long run it will be your best friend. but lightning relfexes is definately where you need to put your poitns especially if your swinging some swords that 10% haste is beastly. with the latest patch though i got rid of relentless strikes and went for the improved poisons and noticed a significant difference. also if you glyph for rupture and spec for it, it will definately out dmg a simple evicerate. i hope this may help.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0eb0xxZMgVo0cxqru0xRt:NfhcmV

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#f0ef0exoVboIuVo0xV0hZxb:IfTcmV

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
is a spec for you guys out there interested in a mutilate spec also when you do this spec make sure your poison capped which i think is atleast 300+ hit rating. put deadly on your mainhand and then instant on your off hand. if you keep up slice and dice and rupture and hunger for blood you dont have to have the best gear in the world to put out some good numbers i sugest practicing your rotation on a dummy to master it because it may be difficult for some guys out there to keep everything ticking. i hope this can help.

good luck and happy hunting

You never put deadly on your main hand which should technically always be a slower weapon than your offhand. The reason for this is Deadly stacks up to 5 times so you want it applied as fast and as often as possible. In my oppinion always go Intant MH, Deadly OH.

and for pvp assass/mute build i recommend WOund MH, Cripling OH.. unless you are targeting casters then i would go with Wound MH, Mind Numbing OH.

Rogues most complacated class in the game! I Read threw these comments and many others across the net and really cnt find the best spec to go with! Im new 2 rogues but seems there 2 much crap flying about. Need someone to link a proper spec that works complete with glyphs, Enchants and Gems. Thanks